Losing voltage to fuel pump 1999 RAV 4 5 Speed AWD

RAVanti · Posted: September 14, 2007, 10:53 am Post subject:

Just to update this topic - last night the car stalled again. I was able to get a look at the fuel pump power LED I installed before the engine stopped running and it was off. So SOMETHING turned off the fuel pump.

I've replaced the Main EFI relay and the Circuit Opening Relay, so based on what little I know I'm figuring it has to be the ECU responding to information from a sensor and telling the fuel pump to turn off. Now the question becomes which sensor? I don't know which sensors tell the ECU whether or not the engine's running, and the Haynes manual I have isn't much help.

Any ideas?

Bill

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wojeepster · Posted: September 14, 2007, 1:21 pm Post subject:

When you say circuit opening relay do you mean fuel pump relay? I had a similar problem on my 240 volvo , you would be driving along and it would just quit. Then 20 minutes later it would start and you would be off for a little while. In my case it was the fuel pump relay (try flicking the relay a few times with your thumb and forefnger then see if it restarts) It can also happen if the brushes in the fuel pump are about worn out. They work until the motor heats up and expands a little bit then the brushes no longer touch. You could wait till this happens again then run 12v and a switch directly to the fuel pump, if it runs and runs with 12v on it you know the problem lies elsewhere....stick in there some problems can be daunting but when you get it finally the heavens will open up and the naked angels will be singing!

RAVanti · Posted: September 22, 2007, 1:43 pm Post subject:

wojeepster - I only called it the circuit opening relay because that's what Toyota (and Haynes) both call it. To me it's a fuel pump relay because in the schematic it sits between the main EFI relay and the fuel pump and is what delivers the power to the fuel pump. I'd have flicked it if I could, but it sits behind a kick panel down by the driver's feet. I have access to it now, though, so I'll try the flick when the car stalls again.

I hadn't considered the fuel pump brushes, but what you say makes sense. The very last time the car stalled was because something shut off the power to the fuel pump, so there could be more than one thing at work here. There's a jumper block under the hood that apparently will allow me to supply power directly to the fuel pump bypassing the relay, but I'm not sure what kind of jumper I'm supposed to use.

Anyway, when I pulled the fuel pump relay out to test it I found that it was much warmer to the touch than I would have expected, which didn't sit well with me. I tested it and it checked out OK, so I cleaned & dressed the contacts as a precaution. Instead of putting it back in its original place in the relay panel I swapped it with the taillight relay which sits diagonally immediately below it. They're the same part #, so they're interchangeable.

It's been a little over 2 weeks and the car hasn't misbehaved again yet. I don't know if I've fixed the problem for good, but I'm hoping. In the meanwhile, I've ordered a replacement relay from NAPA (Beck Arnley part #2030121, $22.95) and will replace the "warm" relay just for the sake of my peace of mind.

RAVanti · Posted: October 21, 2007, 10:05 pm Post subject:

Just to update you all, it's been a month since my last post on this topic which makes it approximately 6 weeks without a recurrence of the problem. I don't think it ever went this long without stalling before so I'm really hoping I can call this issue resolved.

Thanks to all for your help.

Bill Cheers

88interactive · /M Joined: 21 Oct 2007 Posts: 35 98 RAV 4 GX

88interactive · /M Joined: 21 Oct 2007 Posts: 35 98 RAV 4 GX

RAVanti · Posted: October 22, 2007, 10:21 am Post subject:

Cooky,

I don't have a copy of the schematic in post-able form at present. The schematic I used is the one in the Haynes repair manual. I'll see what I can do about scanning that page for you.

I don't know if relay locations vary between left and right-hand drive RAVs, but in the US the fuel pump relay (aka Circuit Opening Relay) is located behind a kick panel in the left-side footwell of the left front seat. The fuel pump relay should be the one at the top left of the relay panel. The relay directly below and to the right of the fuel pump relay should be the taillight relay and should be the exact same part # as the fuel pump relay. After verifying this fact, try swapping the two relays and see if your RAV will start.

Cheers,
Bill

88interactive · /M Joined: 21 Oct 2007 Posts: 35 98 RAV 4 GX

RAVanti · Posted: October 22, 2007, 12:59 pm Post subject:

Cooky,

You're close, but everything I referenced is behind the left front kick panel. Here's a GIF of the relay panel.

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

Please click image for fullsize

Both the fuel pump relay and the taillight relay are labeled for you. If they're both the same part # in your car, just switch them and see if that solves your problem.

I don't recall finding a fuse in that area, so PLEASE proceed cautiously. Here's a photo of the relay panel from my car if that will help.

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

Please click image for fullsize

Bill

88interactive · /M Joined: 21 Oct 2007 Posts: 35 98 RAV 4 GX

88interactive · /M Joined: 21 Oct 2007 Posts: 35 98 RAV 4 GX

RAVanti · Posted: October 22, 2007, 1:34 pm Post subject:

Cooky,

I'm assuming your RAV is a 1st generation (1996-200 over here) because that's the forum you're in. I just went out into the garage and checked the part number on the fuel pump relay I pulled out of my car and it's not the same as what you have. I don't know whether or not they interchange. My relay is 90987-02010-156700-0060. The difference could easily be due to the destination market or year of the vehicle.

IF your left-side kick relay panel looks nearly identical to the photo and diagram I provided AND IF your taillight relay carries the same part # as the fuel pump relay you can go ahead and try the swap. The good news is that if it's the totally wrong relay it probably won't even plug in.

Regards,
Bill

88interactive · /M Joined: 21 Oct 2007 Posts: 35 98 RAV 4 GX

88interactive · /M Joined: 21 Oct 2007 Posts: 35 98 RAV 4 GX

RAVanti · Posted: October 22, 2007, 5:25 pm Post subject:

Cooky,

In the Haynes and AllData wiring diagrams the Circuit Opening Relay is the fuel pump relay. Since you found yours on the right-hand side of the car I guess they put the relay panels in the driver's side footwell regardless of which side the driver sits on.

The number you have (90987-02009) and the number I have (90987-02010) both cross over to Beck-Arnley # 2030121, so that tells me they're interchangeable. This relay is pretty much an all-purpose unit with one coil and one pair of contacts, so you may find one or more of them in use somewhere else in your vehicle. Have a look at your various relay panels and see if you can temporarily "borrow" one from somewhere else.

If you have a 12v battery and a volt-ohmmeter or test light handy you can perform a rudimentary test of the relay in question, although such a test will not prove conclusively whether or not the relay will fail in use, just whether or not it will carry a light load at the moment you test it.

I was going to go to the dealer for a replacement relay, but they wanted almost $75 (with tax), which was more than I wanted to spend on the off-chance that the relay was the problem. I chose to use the aftermarket and found the relay for approximately one-third the cost. You might want to check and see what the aftermarket Multi Parts vendors in your area offer.

Good hunting.

Cheers,
Bill